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Porkponey
08-15-2007, 06:31 PM
I hate to do this but it looks like some friends of mine are going to be moving from recball to speedball. While I want to play speed way more than recball, I don't have the money for a sick piece, so I find myself torn between the two. Going with the popular choice is against my nature, but works when it comes to having a solid aftermarket, and I can't leave anything alone, so upgradability is a huge deal. I can start looking for jobs now that I've got my school schedule worked out, and should have some income fairly soon. I wanted a vs2 until I got my hands on one. Great on paper, not that amazing in the hands. I also got to mess with a mini, and absolutely hated the way it felt. Either way, the purchase is still off in the distance and I'm open to ideas, but I don't really want a timmy. Smart parts in general I'm iffy about. And ego's are amazing but I can't afford that mess, so who knows. I'm well open to suggestion as I won't be purchasing for a little while. Sorry, I'm a research hound.

Ace24
08-15-2007, 06:34 PM
PMR. Even though I have a T-1, which is essientally an older version of the DP Fusion and love it. The PMR has alot of upgrades and custom options.

Heck look at what www.bloodlineindustries.us has for them in regards to a back cap.

Porkponey
08-15-2007, 07:04 PM
PMR. Even though I have a T-1, which is essientally an older version of the DP Fusion and love it. The PMR has alot of upgrades and custom options.

Heck look at what www.bloodlineindustries.us has for them in regards to a back cap.


Oooooh. That's sexy. The pmr is just such a nice gun for the money it's hard to pass up. I'm leaning towards it at the moment, but may change my mind. I unfortunately have never really been one to buy used, since you never know what kind of crap you're getting into without manufacturer support, and on a 400dollar marker, I'd like at least some help.

Ace24
08-15-2007, 08:15 PM
Never buy from E-bay. (Just my 2 cents) They can come in crappy condition provided the person is not a paintball player/ good at maintaining their equipment. Your best bet on getting used is on here or on PBNation.

Fusions are great for the money, but are a little lacking. F.A.S.O.R.'s tend to be harder to work with (in my experience) then a full EP gun. My T-1 is a pain in the but to get perfect when it comes to firing speeds, eye ballance and so on. The Fusion might have improved on this though.

PMR's are nothing but great and they are selling them with UL's so cheap now. I've seen a few complaints about the back cap, if not tightened right, slowly coming loose.

Viking would be a good person to talk to about the Matrix Rail. He has one and can tell you everything about it. (...and I mean everything. He types alot. Perks of being a english teacher I suppose. My mom is an english major and talks about as much as he types. Heh. [No dissrespect intended])

The only thing I would recomend upgrading when you first get it is the feedneck. I've seen them break pretty often at our field, being composite and all. Other then that, they seem to be fine out of the box. Maybe a new barrel and trigger (to me the trigger is awkward.) but they rip stock.

Porkponey
08-15-2007, 08:39 PM
Believe it or not that makes three english majors, lol. I just changed mine from editorial to public speaking and will probably end up with a doctorate so I can teach, lol. I love to talk, man. Thanks for all the info on the pmr. I'm really looking forward to hopefully scoring one. Color choice is such a toughy though. I love the olive because I love earth tones and golds and greens and browns and all, but since it's a speedball gun I want something that's got some bling factor. Maybe they'll pull some new colors out by the time i've got the dough. I'd love a baby blue one, mmm mmm good.

Ace24
08-15-2007, 08:57 PM
You could always get the body annoed. :) I know a place that does a good job for a good price.

Doesn't matter what color your gun is in speed ball. Hell I've seen some kick ass camo Ego's and Matrix's that aren't meant for scenario/woodsball.

paintballer5646
08-15-2007, 09:41 PM
I'd rather have a fusion, I had a PMR and I could never get it right or I would get it right for a game then it would leak and chop. Maybe I had a bad one, but I will probably never consider owning another one.

Ace24
08-15-2007, 09:42 PM
I'd rather have a fusion, I had a PMR and I could never get it right or I would get it right for a game then it would leak and chop. Maybe I had a bad one, but I will probably never consider owning another one.
Thats the first time I've ever heard that. Where did you buy it from?

paintballer5646
08-15-2007, 10:14 PM
I got it from a dealer on PBN, it was BNIB it didn;t work the first time i aired it up, it worked for 1/2 a day after I fixed it, then it never really worked again. I sold it for $300 and have a nice SFT shocker coming.

Paintballadict18
08-16-2007, 12:22 AM
I got it from a dealer on PBN, it was BNIB it didn;t work the first time i aired it up, it worked for 1/2 a day after I fixed it, then it never really worked again. I sold it for $300 and have a nice SFT shocker coming.

the person u sold it too is in for a rude awakening

vikingshadow
08-16-2007, 03:45 AM
You must have gotten a bad one or didn't have the right things to operate it (fast loader and good paint.) Mine has NEVER chopped a single time in over 5 months - that's what eyes are great for! I was having problems with small leaks that were more annoyances, but once I changed the orings, it hasn't leaked since.

Here is a review on the Rail that I did a while back. (http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=8252) I'd recommend it over a fusion for a couple of reasons - but the main one is that you said you don't want a Timmy. A Fusion is most like a Timmy in operating style, although a Timmy is fully EP. A Rail is a spool valve type gun, which while most people say it's less efficient than poppit style guns (timmys and fusions) I don't believe it because I get AWESOME efficiency on both my Shocker and my Rail.

Oh, another thing - the Rail with Ultralite for 25.00 isn't a forever thing. I read somewhere that once the businesses are sold out of the current stock, the price is going back up to the normal price. I also wouldn't buy used, IMO. It's like buying a used car. Sure, it's cheaper, but you get someone else's problems! Again, just my opinion.

If you have any questions, let me know. I'll put it this way - I have a super, tricked-out Shocker - nothing stock except the body. It's been proven time and again in many tournaments - and it's my backup to my Rail!

fwgericke
08-16-2007, 04:10 AM
See if you can go and shoot both of them, that would also give you an idea of what your looking for, You may get the fusion and end up not liking the way it shoots, or you may get the pmr and have the same problem.??

Just a suggestion;)

Porkponey
08-16-2007, 07:16 AM
See if you can go and shoot both of them, that would also give you an idea of what your looking for, You may get the fusion and end up not liking the way it shoots, or you may get the pmr and have the same problem.??

Just a suggestion;)


That's what I'd really like to do. Unfortunately, being a musician, I know how annoying it is to be a wanker. To just go into stuff and play guitars and get a salesmans hopes up knowing I don't have the money right now. And I'm always that guy that needs the extra work. like Oh you want to try a gun? sure? I'll have to do a backflip over a pool of drowning children which I WAS in the process of saving, but sure yeah, you can shoot it, I'll get them later. And then I feel like a jerk. Anyways. Vike, I did read your review and I did enjoy it. You seem to be about as bright as the sun here (east coast florida) and I very much enjoy reading your writing. I'm going to ups and a few other places today to apply for a job, and then maybe if I get one I'll go to the local shop and at least ask to see the guns. Now with a spool valve, there is no cocking or uncocking, is there? The gun uses air to move things around iirc. I guess it's time to go google spool valves. Again, thank you for the advice. Keep it coming.

spyderpilotacs05
08-16-2007, 07:29 AM
The only thing I would recomend upgrading when you first get it is the feedneck. I've seen them break pretty often at our field, being composite and all. Other then that, they seem to be fine out of the box. Maybe a new barrel and trigger (to me the trigger is awkward.) but they rip stock.


Ya go for the pmr, but you wont need a new trigger if you get the ul frame.

The feedneak is good,but i have never herd of one breaking.

Also keep in mind if your not going to buy a new gun untill March or April they will be comming out with the 08 fusions.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2323143

but you live in flordia so you can play anytime you want so go for the pmr.

Oscum Guy
08-16-2007, 07:55 AM
heres a rel pic of the 08 fusion
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/WKS7/photo07ly5.jpg
i like everything but the lpr and milling behind it. looks like an ion frame on an ego to dm fade lol.

Ace24
08-16-2007, 09:30 AM
Now with a spool valve, there is no cocking or uncocking, is there? The gun uses air to move things around iirc. I guess it's time to go google spool valves.
You don't have to cock any high ends, even if they aren't spool valves. Timmies, Fusions, Egos, or Cyborgs do not cock. :)

That '08 Fusion is a monster! :eek: Is it really nessisary to have a trigger guard THAT big? :confused:

applesauce
08-16-2007, 09:35 AM
ive had my PMR for about 4 months now, and i love that thing. once you figure out the cleaning process, its easy as pie to keep it running smooth. they come with all the firing modes you could ever need, (PSP, NXL, Millenium, semi). they've been tried and tested and a lot of people love them!

Tito=PBL
08-16-2007, 01:49 PM
i love my PMR. if you get a new PMR expect to have problems with it the first couple of weeks. like leaks and stuff but once that all is fixed you will have a monster. as to the feedneck DONT over tighten it. that is how they break. same with the backcap.

vikingshadow
08-16-2007, 02:03 PM
^^^I don't agree with that - anymore. Lots and LOTS of people have NO problems at all with them. I'm beginning to think it was just that initial lot that went out first that had issues.

Mr.Untouchable
08-16-2007, 03:09 PM
Honestly either way you go, you're going to make the right choice.

I have two players on my team, one with a Fusion, the other a PMR. And Honestly, they both are amazing mid-end guns. I've shot both, and although each have there Ups and Downs, it would be a hard choice between the two for me.


I tend to lean towards the fusion because it's not as common, and I also like the FASOR style guns.

Ace24
08-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Honestly either way you go, you're going to make the right choice.

I have two players on my team, one with a Fusion, the other a PMR. And Honestly, they both are amazing mid-end guns. I've shot both, and although each have there Ups and Downs, it would be a hard choice between the two for me.


I tend to lean towards the fusion because it's not as common, and I also like the FASOR style guns.
Can I hug you?

spyderpilotacs05
08-16-2007, 06:03 PM
That '08 Fusion is a monster! :eek: Is it really nessisary to have a trigger guard THAT big? :confused:


now that you say that i see it is huge... lol

makes it look like it would be hard to get a grip on.

i hope they make aftermarket trigger frames for it.

paintballer5646
08-16-2007, 08:04 PM
the person u sold it too is in for a rude awakening
I told him about everything, and he was fine with it.


You must have gotten a bad one or didn't have the right things to operate it (fast loader and good paint.) Mine has NEVER chopped a single time in over 5 months - that's what eyes are great for! I was having problems with small leaks that were more annoyances, but once I changed the orings, it hasn't leaked since.

I have a halo and velocity, and used Draxxus X ball Sliver and Dynasty Banana Ball every time.

It was probably just a bad gun.

DRAGON
08-16-2007, 09:07 PM
now that you say that i see it is huge... lol

makes it look like it would be hard to get a grip on.

i hope they make aftermarket trigger frames for it.

I beleive he's speaking more like a Frankenstein monster. A bit fugly IMO -

If I were thinking of buying a marker right now, I'd wait till the Cup this fall and see what the manufacturers are throwing into the ring -

Mr.Untouchable
08-17-2007, 03:03 AM
Can I hug you?

Sigg'ed :p

Dragon has a point, there always seems to be some great things that come out around the Cup.

Porkponey
08-18-2007, 05:24 AM
Well, my mind has been changed just a hair due to looking around. I used to be a huge cocker fan when I was young. Still think they're the sexiest looking of the guns by far. I love the massive ammounts of hardware just hanging off of them. I know they're somewhat tricky to maintain but I've definitely never been one to let that get me down in the past. I've got somewhere around 4 or 5large worth of guitar equipment all of which is NOT entirely metal on metal mechanical and NOT set in stone how it should work, and I'm absolutely asininely critical and take care of and maintain them religiously. I like that stuff. Anyways, now that I've given my life story, I'm looking at a bm or the superstock. If I sold the pilot plus a few extra goodies I could get the super stock flat out. If I saved a hundred bucks more I could have a bm, but I don't know if they're THAT much better. I know they look way better. But it looks like they both have the karni front block or whatever that big one is called, they both have bm regs, so who knows. I'm leaning towards the black magic since I wanted one when they first came out and I was going to get back into the sport, so I need to get my hands on some guns and actually do some real research from the sounds of things.

TimVanNormal
08-18-2007, 10:01 AM
Pmr, its a simplistic dm7.
And for 425, you can get the ul frame and save 175$ Its quite a deal!

newkid
08-21-2007, 05:28 PM
fusion ftw