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SnOoZ
02-03-2006, 06:56 PM
would there be anyway for me to make this into a pump or would it be a waste of money or what... i just thought of it cuz that way id have something to do. Its my first paintball gun ever its a ZAP ZXS 400 WOOT WOOT.....so should i make it into a pump or dont even try it cuz it will be a waste of money????
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e208/snooz08/Picture025.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e208/snooz08/Picture028.jpg

THIS WAS POST #1000 FOR THIS FORUM WOOT WOOT!!!

covert24
02-03-2006, 07:00 PM
ummmmm. no dont waste ur time. good project if u have wayy too much time on ur hands. bad project. i hate zap. plastic pieces of ****

bomberpilot07
02-03-2006, 07:21 PM
it would be a fun project, but in the long run it would cost to much considering what the gun is worth.

colonel_moo
02-03-2006, 08:01 PM
its not a waste of money if you actually want to do it. its not like you're gonna get a performance increase out if it or anything, you are just doing it for fun, right? its not a waste of money if you are enjoying it.

SnOoZ
02-03-2006, 08:16 PM
about how much would it cost?

adriann222
02-04-2006, 06:49 PM
If you don't want it to look pretty you could just get:

PVC pipe (pump handle, goes around barrel)
2 metal rods (rifle cleaning kits goes from pump handle to bolt)
1 constructed piece to connect to the metal rods and the rear of the bolt (like a square piece of metal with 3 holes in it. one for the bolt and one for each rod)

Your looking at about 8.00 total.

Then cut a slit in your hammer (drill or hand saw) and remove the o-ring to allow air to pass by it and your done

SnOoZ
02-05-2006, 02:01 PM
any of u know what barrel thread it is?

TacTownKilla
02-05-2006, 03:16 PM
my guess is spyder. if you seriously worry about wasting money then get out of paintball right now.

covert24
02-05-2006, 03:19 PM
yea it probably is a spyder. if u need barrels hit me up,

thechubbss12
02-06-2006, 05:50 AM
Ahah looks fun LOL. Well you can ghetto impress your friends with it.

Yea i dont think it should cost over 15 dollars to do that conversion just a couple of hours of ghetto rigging and y0ou will have a sweet ZAP ZXS PUMP 400.

adriann222
02-06-2006, 01:35 PM
Ahah looks fun LOL. Well you can ghetto impress your friends with it.

Yea i dont think it should cost over 15 dollars to do that conversion just a couple of hours of ghetto rigging and y0ou will have a sweet ZAP ZXS PUMP 400.

I did the same thing with a Tippy. It wasn't pretty but it was fun to play with, and yeah some people thought it was silly but they asked to borrow it a few times so they could try out a pump marker.

SnOoZ
02-06-2006, 04:34 PM
I guess i might as well try it i dont got nothin to lose besides a lil bit of money which i can spare...I dont know how to do it but once i get ready ill ask

adriann222
02-06-2006, 07:05 PM
Yeah I'll walk you through a Ghetto pump rig. there's nothing to it.

bigred76
02-06-2006, 08:03 PM
Hmmm, this'll be an interesting project to see if it breaks or not.

SnOoZ
02-06-2006, 09:16 PM
adriann can u get some pics of ur ghetto pump that way i will have an idea of what it might look like or any1 else that has a pic of a ghetto pump....cuz i have no idea what it'll look like

bigred76
02-06-2006, 09:40 PM
Here's a quick rendition I made using the marker I'd use for my Spump.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/bigred76/SpumpDiagram.jpg

durrell
02-06-2006, 10:03 PM
How are you going to keep it from recocking?

bigred76
02-06-2006, 10:04 PM
Drill a hole in the bottom right after where the o-ring is on the striker when it depresses the valve.

durrell
02-06-2006, 10:05 PM
Ah, yes I remember that from the chat now. Makes sense.

ooglieboogliebob
02-07-2006, 07:44 PM
haha yep, i remember that huge fight :) ... i was there ... nice idea though

adriann222
02-08-2006, 11:10 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/bigred76/SpumpDiagram.jpg


Yeah that's the idea. But yours is gonna be easier because your's is top cocking so you can link the pump straight to your bolt. oh and if you wanna get really creative you can cut the hammer like the new cocker hammer so you can have a closed bolt pump.

SnOoZ
02-08-2006, 11:21 AM
oh and if you wanna get really creative you can cut the hammer like the new cocker hammer so you can have a closed bolt pump.
ya i pretty much dont get any of that :confused:

bigred76
02-08-2006, 11:44 AM
Yours is rear cocking, which means you just get the PVC pipe and the metal rod going backwards. Then what you do is put a 90* bend on the metal and make it so it catches on the bolt. Pretty simple, really. :p

adriann222
02-08-2006, 12:51 PM
ya i pretty much dont get any of that :confused:

The new hammer style for autocockers has a groove in the top of the hammer that allows the bolt to push the hammer back but then allows the bolt to move forward free of the hammer.

Picture a U shaped groove in the top of the hammer. As the bolt moves back the pin that usually connects the bolt to the hammer will slide into the groove and push the hammer back, into a locked position. But then when you pump forward the bolt will move back forward loading a ball.

So what you change from the original picture is you attach the rod, coming from the pump, to the bolt. This way when you pump back it cocks the marker but then when you pump forward it loads the ball. It's really simple. You just have to have either a dremel, a good drill press, or a really good drill and bench clamp.

I havn't tried this one myself, But I've heard good things from others who have.

SnOoZ
02-08-2006, 01:12 PM
what the hell is a hammer??? lol

bigred76
02-08-2006, 01:13 PM
Oh, you mean like in this picture:
http://www.bullets.hu/images/kepek/10-1-05wgma.jpg

A hammer is a striker: the thing in the bottom tube. ;)

DRAGON
02-08-2006, 01:45 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/bigred76/SpumpDiagram.jpg

Need some info here............

OK, you pull the pump handle back(has to be attached directly to the bolt by a cocking rod) to latch the striker and sear together. Now you must push the bolt forward to chamber the ball correct? What connects the bolt and striker together then disconnects the bolt from the striker so you can push the bolt forward to chamber the ball? This is not a Cocker but a Spyder lol. The bolt has to disconnect because it is attached by a rod which connects to the pump handle. Not to mention that you would need to do this between the small slot in the body between the striker and bolt -

Now that you've optimistically figured all that out :rolleyes: there is another concern: once you pull the trigger and the striker goes forward, what happens? The tension of the spring on the striker keeps the valve pin and cup seal opened(purging pressure) until you manually pull back on the pump handle to again hook the striker to the sear. We have seen this happen to some of those that don't cock the marker before airing up in semi Spyders. This manually, not for milliseconds as in the way blowbacks work but for the reaction time of the user. What's to stop the operator from essentially purging the propellant within very few shots? You need mechanics that will momentarily let a shot of pressure through the valve and bolt(in milliseconds) then give the user time to recock the striker and bolt to let another ball into the breech -

Can someopne please explain these concerns to me? :D

SnOoZ
02-08-2006, 01:45 PM
ooooo that helps....is the straight metal strap with v grove on the outside of the gun??? and what does it do?

adriann222
02-08-2006, 03:55 PM
Big red- yeah kinda, but the cocking rod runs beside the top tube of the marker to the bolt, instead of between the top and bottom tubes like a cocker.

Snooze- yes the "cocking" rod goes on the outside of the marker. I got a small piece of tubing and super glued it (the tubing) to the marker to make sure it stayed lined up, and then ran the cocking rod throgh the tube to the bolt.

Dragon- I assume that question was put to me...

As for the valve not leaking after pulling the trigger I lightened the spring which helped, but yes there was some leakage. It really didn't bother me that much I just cocked right after I fired. I mean it's called ghetto for a reason :) I guess if you wanted to get really spiffy you could put a solid valve pin in it, but that would make life really complicated (something we are trying to avoid). Plus if you want a pump and are going to spend more than $10 he could just go buy a used hammer for like $30 on ebay.

Like I've said before, you get an ugly marker, that you have to pump to work it. It's very ghetto and doesn't work 100%, but hey that's what this project is all about....right?

P.S.- He could always locktite an o-ring onto the back of his valve to prevent the hammer from holding the valve open...maybe???

bigred76
02-08-2006, 05:00 PM
Drago, my idea is for a SPUMP, not a 'Cocker pump. The bolt doesn't go forward when you push the handle forward. It acts just like a normal Spyder except you manually have to recock it with a pump after each shot, thus making it under the classification of a pump. It's a hybrid, not a true marker designed or made to operate like a traditional pump like Sheridans, Phantoms, Snipers, all the others.

Next question you asked about the valve: Hard valve spring. You would also have to increase the pressure because of the cap on the end of the V/A in place of the LPC. That coupled with the hard valve spring should hold the valve shut so it does not do what you are describing.

You know what reading your arguements made me think of, Drago? When I brought this idea up with geeZus a little while back in the Chat. Almost exactly the same arguements, LOL.

DRAGON
02-08-2006, 05:37 PM
So it's pretty much an inefficient semi that refuses to recock unless with the aid of a pump and linkage:p Interesting -

I asked those questions before in the pump section and never got an answer to my knowledge. Maybe G saw them and ran with it in your chat debate IDK -

bigred76
02-08-2006, 05:51 PM
Correct, Drago. It is if you look at it that way. I never saw your post there, and I really am doubtful G would actually venture into the pump section...

SnOoZ
02-08-2006, 05:54 PM
How is it not going to recock and whats making it not recock

Team Ramrod
02-08-2006, 05:56 PM
the groove in the striker is allowing what air that would normally be caught on the face of the striker, vent past it and have little/ no effect on it. so i think

DRAGON
02-08-2006, 05:59 PM
........... I never saw your post there, and I really am doubtful G would actually venture into the pump section...

http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=891

bigred76
02-08-2006, 06:16 PM
the groove in the striker is allowing what air that would normally be caught on the face of the striker, vent past it and have little/ no effect on it. so i think
Correct. In my project I am just going to drill a couple holes in the bottom of the body.

Oh, that one Drago. Basically, the hard valve spring will keep it from going off like you described. Putting a weak valve or hard main spring in, however, would cause that to happen. As G so bluntly put it, I'm "making a broken marker even brokener." Get used to it. ;)