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Paintball_Freak
06-20-2007, 07:01 AM
Ok this is my first post/thread.

hi guys and gals (if any)

Ok im in a predicament here. I want to upgreade my Spyder Pilot ACS to LP

But i dont know if its worth it. Dont get me wrong i love my spyder but i wanna know money wise, is it worth it. and performance wise.

I mean i can get an ION and do that up.

Now the reason why i wanna do the spyder is cause its easy to use and simple to clean.

Now what i wanna know is

IS IT REALLY WORTH IT OR MUST I GET AN ION.

cause with the money ill spend, i go 200 over than what i can get an ION, and i can upgreade the ION with that MOney, but I love my spyder, What should i do?

vikingshadow
06-20-2007, 07:39 AM
Welcome to the forums! Hope we can answer this in a way you like. As always, feel free to ask any questions because there's likely to be someone here who's been through it before!

Ok, you're main question is whether it's worth it. IMO, if you're going just on finance alone, it isn't worth it. Now, I went LP when I used my Sonix - it was fun, I learned a lot about my gun and markers in general, but when I went up to the next level with a Dragun T1, the T1 blew my spyder away. Sure, I reduced kick, sound signature and increased efficiency and had a kick butt gun that I was and still am proud of, but money-wise, I could have saved A LOT just by moving up a level.

Ultimately, it's up to you. It's easier now for you to get used parts so the cost can be minimized that it was when I went LP on my Sonix. So, you have to decide, do you want to just play with a LP gun, or do you wanna up your Spyder and have people notice your upgrading skills? Some people are going to say that it's worth every penny, some will say it's not and you should get a different gun (you'll hear everything from get an Ion to buy a used Timmy within the next two hours, I'd bet good hard money on this!)

By the way, upgrading your Spyder to LP isn't as easy as just slapping on some parts. You have to play with springs, get the right match of parts, etc...in the end, when you've finished, you can seriously be proud of your gun! Plus, by making it low pressure, you have a gun that is uniquely yours.

I know I didn't give you a straight up, "Yes it's worth it," or "No way!" but this is one of those impossible answers because we don't know you in real life, and the situation is different for each individual. I hope I gave you some things to think about, though. Again, welcome to the forums and we hope you stay a while!

spyderpilotacs05
06-20-2007, 07:54 AM
i had the same problem. For about a month i had the money for a new gun and i couldn't decide. My pilot acs was just fine but i wanted better. i also thought about going lp. knew what i wanted for lp parts but i got a new gun instead. I got a diablo wrath for 160.00 shipped. i love it!

when you get a new gun its not like you wont use the pilot. i am still uping mine and i love them both.

my advice is that you take your time and think it out. what ever you decide you will have something better.

money wise nothing in paintball is cheap.

I say if you have the money, Why not spend it!

Kenny_McCormic
06-20-2007, 08:24 AM
whatever you do dont get the Ion. out of the box the pilot is way better. if you want to move up i would recomend a VS2. there are a lot of guns out there cheaper and better than an ion.

shunut
06-20-2007, 09:25 AM
Like Vike said, Welcome to the Forum. I don't think that anybody will give you a definitive answer on this question but I think we can show the +'s and -'s and help you decide which will be better for you.

I, also like Vike, am in the middle of the road on this one. I had a TLX that went through lots and lots of changes. I did the LP thing and am glad I did. It taught me a lot about the Spyder and now I can help others when they are struggling with the same problems I had. Spyder's are simple guns, operation wise. Learning about them and how they operate will help you to understand how other markers operate.

Can you have a kick ass LP Spyder? Definitely. My TLX, before it went through its final transformation, was awesome. People made comments about it all the time at the field.

Can you buy a new marker that out of the box will blow the LP Spyder away? Without a doubt.

If you like tinkering and modifying stuff build a LP Spyder, you won't regret it. If you don't and you just want something out of the box that is better than a Spyder and thats good enough for you, then just buy a new marker.

If you really like tinkering, you can go even futher with your Spyder and end up with something like the marker in my avatar.

Paintball_Freak
06-20-2007, 10:03 AM
Thanks guys. for all the help.

Kenny, the ION is AMAZING. my friend has one and it rocks.

Reason why im thinking to get one is
1 it works with no spring
2 its high end
3 no blow back

but its daim hard to clean it.

But I love the spyder so thats why im in a predicament.

I do like tinkering, but will the marker perform as good as some tourney markers that you get (not like EGOS) but like a basic high end marker eg the ION, epiphany etc

Kenny_McCormic
06-20-2007, 11:33 AM
tTwo of my friends have ions. Do they blow away the mechs everybody else has? YES!
But they are a total pain to clean and there are alot more parts to remember to put in the right way. One of my friends has an ion and he told his brother who is a certified airplane mechanic to clean and lube it. The guy couldnt figure out how to disasemble the thing after reading the entire manual twice. Now im gonna have to do it because im the only person out of the group of guys I play with who knows how to fully dissassemble a spyder and put it back together. Im not saying ions suck Im saying they arent good noob guns. A spimmy would outperform an ion a a well tuned lp spyder is about the same as an ion. your willing to do the maintnence get the ion. If you like the idea of a gun that comes apart for basic maintnance at the pull of a pin up your spyder.

118917
06-20-2007, 11:51 AM
first of all an ion is not a high end
and I'd rather have an Lp spyder because you get a sense of achievement when you compare it to when you got it
Ions are just overrated because every kid and their mother has one

Paintball_Freak
06-20-2007, 12:10 PM
Ok another question.

how do you stop blowback up the feed neck?

shunut
06-20-2007, 12:16 PM
By lowering the operating pressure, I.E. LP, you will greatly reduce blowback into the feedneck. The other sure fire way is get a forcefeed loader. Forcefeed loaders put constant pressure on the ball stack so they can't blowback.

And 118917 and Ion is far from High End. I think I would classify it at best Mid End.

Paintball_Freak
06-20-2007, 12:30 PM
Do O-rings on the bolt help???

Ok here is what im gonna do to my Spyder

Trinity Block with gauge
Evil Detonator (only reg with bottom feed and long)
NDZ Valve with New Pin
CP micro razor drop
CP On/Off

Is that ok for LP setup so far

vikingshadow
06-20-2007, 12:40 PM
first of all an ion is not a high end
and I'd rather have an Lp spyder because you get a sense of achievement when you compare it to when you got it
Ions are just overrated because every kid and their mother has one

First of all, you're correct. Ion's aren't high end - more in the lower mid level, but definitely higher than your basic spyder.

Second of all, Ion's are NOT overrated because every kid and their mother has one. Everyone likes to complain about them (a sad predicament that started because of a few insulted idiots, I feel) because of the proliferation of them due to their low costs, but so what? They are decent little guns for the money. SP really took paintball to another level with these guns and paved the way for other, much less higher end guns to come onto the market. Ions are super low pressure, very upgradeable, fast, come stock with ramping software and shoot decently. With body kits, and different parts, you can upgrade it to fit your own personality.

The whole "Ion's are for noobs" crap is just that - crap. Oh, and I'm not an Ion fan - I personally don't like the feel of them. However, after saying the good stuff about them, I will say that for the money you need to invest in an Ion to get it to operate at a higher level than the stock is, you could buy one of the newer model Minis, Rails, Fusions, etc...which don't need much, if any upgrading. So, point is, don't listen to people bash you for wanting an Ion...

Paintball_Freak
06-20-2007, 12:45 PM
I wont let it get to me. i might even get a PMR but cause ion is so cheap!!!

ill see what happens (as far as fund and my game goes).

What do you guys think of the LP setup im thinking of getting?

vikingshadow
06-20-2007, 12:55 PM
Trinity Block with gauge Don't know much about Trinity, but a few people here like them.
Evil Detonator (only reg with bottom feed and long)Again, don't know much about it, but I hear it's ok.
NDZ Valve with New Pin
CP micro razor dropNot needed. Purely personal preference, but it won't help LP at all.
CP On/OffAgain, same as before. Not needed, but purely personal preference.

Is that ok for LP setup so far

So far, not too bad. But if you're looking to save money, get rid of the drop and on/off.

You'll need a spring kit to include main springs and valve springs also.

If you can, I'd find a different reg, like a Palmer's Stab, or a Bob Long Torpedo (or spend a bit more and get a CP or a Hyper II). I'm not real familiar with the Pilot, but do you have to change the front block on these? If not, look into modifying the block to be higher flowing, or look for a Dragun block (highest flowing I've ever seen - it has NO restriction whatsoever, but some of them had leak issues - I never did with mine.)

I also used a Rocket Valve by Maddman, but it took quite a bit of adjusting to get it fine tuned just perfectly.

Then of course, you may want to look into a new bolt, and modify your striker. Read up on Otter's site for those...

shunut
06-20-2007, 12:56 PM
Its okay. You'll need to polish the bolt and striker if you are keeping them stock. I'm not a big fan of the Detonator or the New Designz Valve. The Detonator isn't the only long, bottom input regulator, the Long CP is, well, long and has the input on the bottom, and is MUCH better performance wise than the Detonator. The New Designz valve, I've just heard a lot of people don't like them. For the money the Rocket valve is way better. It takes a little more to set it up but I think its worth it.

118917
06-20-2007, 01:50 PM
I hate ions not for their performance which is decent but for the business practices sp has
also I don't like ions for the fact that everyone with one feels as if they're god on field with it, although there are exceptions I feel I'm loosing my train of thought so I'll just leave it at that

vikingshadow
06-20-2007, 04:47 PM
Well, erasing the long post I had, because it just doesn't matter...

Let's keep this on topic, or start another thread that deals with Ions and SP. Thanks!

MVS1
06-20-2007, 05:09 PM
Paintball Freak, Lp'n your ACS is fun and can be a great opportunity to learn, is it worth it? Only if you plan on keeping the marker, because you'll never get your money back, resale wise, performance wise absolutely.
Now parts you listed...I really like the feel of my trinity reverse angle frontblock, however I recommend you try and find somebody that has one installed and see how you like it yourself, some folks don't like the way they feel.
Evil Detonator, decent reg FOR THE PRICE, mine has been very consistent, once broken in and works exceptionally well, recovery wise.
Valve, I can't say enough good things about the BanditBolts High Flow valve and the NDZ valve pin works very well and comes w/a delrin cupseal. Your gonna have to do your homework and make up your own mind.
An o-ringed bolt will help reduce blow-by, however being that the Pilot is an Open bolt, blowback design there will always be some blow-by.

I have close to $400 not including purchase price and milling, had I paid somebody to do it for me, however I know every inch of of my marker personally, developed a huge understanding of tuning and efficiency and for the most part have a unique marker in the sea of pilot's that are out there.

And by the way I personally like Ion's, and know numerous people that use and love them. My only issue is that SP decied to raise the base price for no reason at all, so I guess my issue is more with the marketing division.

NeedForSpeed
06-20-2007, 06:04 PM
hhhmmmm..I would have to say

Trinity Block with gauge- sounds good, people like them
Evil Detonator (only reg with bottom feed and long)-not that good of a regulator..spend a little more on a used CP regulator
NDZ Valve with New Pin- get the Rocket valve
CP micro razor drop-totally your preference, not needed for now
CP On/Off-if you want an on/off. I would keep the one you have for now and buy the CP regulator. If it doesn't have to have the hose thread out of the bottom get a palmers stabalizer or bob long torpedo.

might want a new bolt also. READ THIS (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/lp.html#test) and THIS (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/project.html)
I have a 32 degrees 9 piece spring kit I could sell you for cheap. pm me if your interested

Paintball_Freak
06-21-2007, 07:13 AM
I really want the reg to have a fitting at the bottom. The Long CP has a macroline fitting on in the reg (i want a to connect 90* fitting which only the shorty CP can have). Also i want a steel hose not macroline.

I need a new block cause mine is male and i want a Gauge
http://www.spyder.tv/section/support/manuals/spyder_pilot.pdf
check it out

ok i was thinking of the Bandit valve but im trying to order everything from the internet (one site) and as i live in south africa its cheaper to pay for one shipment.

but if its better i wont compromise

NeedForSpeed
06-21-2007, 07:36 AM
whoa. South Africa, I see..I'll keep my eye out for deals for you as of know. I'm sure someone is parting their lp marker around here..

fwgericke
06-21-2007, 09:34 AM
Welcome to the forums, im from South Africa as well, not so easy to get parts, but its slowly getting better, whereabout are you situated??:D

Paintball_Freak
06-21-2007, 10:05 AM
Joburg.

Its got parts or they can get it but, its too expensive.

Just to give an example to you guys in USA,

An ION is $225.

x by 7 to get the exchange rate ( 7 Rand : 1 Dollar )

=R1575

an ION cost R2200 here in SA.
I got my pilot for the price you guys get an ION

fwgericke
06-22-2007, 12:45 AM
Yep, they are damned expensive here, so where do you play?

We here in South Africa, just wish we could get all the prices that you guys cause were getting nailed with the exchange rates!!:mad:

It sucks.

Paintball_Freak
06-22-2007, 07:28 AM
Im in Joburg, I play mostly at PBCity or Competitive Paintball (boksburg)

Its not only the exchange rate, its also shipping here, customs, Tax and the shops have to make a profit

VS3 Sniper
06-22-2007, 12:10 PM
Thanks guys. for all the help.

Kenny, the ION is AMAZING. my friend has one and it rocks.

Reason why im thinking to get one is
1 it works with no spring
2 its high end
3 no blow back

but its daim hard to clean it.

But I love the spyder so thats why im in a predicament.

I do like tinkering, but will the marker perform as good as some tourney markers that you get (not like EGOS) but like a basic high end marker eg the ION, epiphany etc
IMO ions are lowend guns. I think u should just save ur money and get a better gun when i moved from my pilot to my dm4 it was like a world of difference. No matter how much u upgrade a spyder its still gonna be a spyder that being said there are a lot of really nice spyders out there like shunet's spimmy. imo i say go to the next level of guns.good luck

Paintball_Freak
06-23-2007, 05:24 AM
I think Im gonna Up my spyder!!!

Reason, Its easy to use, and Looks daim cool.

So here is my Final list of parts (dont talk me outta the Detonator, specs wise its what i want)

Trinity Reverse angle Block (VA) (is there something thats straigh angle and has a gauge. The Only one is the bob long one that ottersc has on his site, but i cant find it anywhere on the net)
Evil Detonator
Bandit Bolts Valve
Bandit Bolts LP bolt with o-rings
NDZ Valve Pin
32* Spring Kit
Polished Striker

Well thats what im gonna do.

I might get a lighter striker, but i wanna know, is it worth getting one (pros and cons besides making the marker ligter)?

NeedForSpeed
06-23-2007, 05:55 AM
According to Otter's site. It's not.
Otter's project (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/project.html)
scroll down to "The Striker" Just polish yours and save the money for paint.