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HelpDeskHustler
05-26-2007, 09:37 AM
Hey, I just got my May scores in (second time taking it) and got a M+R (old score) of 1270, which is 80 points up since the last time I took it. I keep getting owned on the essay, because the readers are a bunch of haters.

Nintendo
05-26-2007, 09:49 AM
yea took them in like march got 1150 old score colleges don't look at the writing part anywho gotta take the ACT on june but i hear thats alot easier then SAT

durrell
05-26-2007, 09:57 AM
I didn't take it. I was considering taking it on June 2nd but decided not to since I don't really need it.

Hoppy11
05-26-2007, 10:13 AM
Are you planning on going out of state? If not then don't even bother with the SAT.. just take the ACT which sucks too

HelpDeskHustler
05-26-2007, 10:17 AM
Are you planning on going out of state? If not then don't even bother with the SAT.. just take the ACT which sucks too
No, Instate only and if I did go out of state I would go to a private school.

I heard ACT was harder, I take it like June 9th or something.

marvin-martian
05-26-2007, 10:21 AM
I heard ACT was harder, I take it like June 9th or something.
everyone ive talked to who has taken both said the ACt was easier.

phatphil
05-26-2007, 10:22 AM
I have SAT 6/2 and ACT 6/9... did you guys study at all for them?

HelpDeskHustler
05-26-2007, 10:37 AM
I have SAT 6/2 and ACT 6/9... did you guys study at all for them?
I balls-out'ed the jan. one and got answer report to study what i got wrong. then i retook it. The people who grade the essays are clearly a bunch of conformist slobs that can't accept the fact that they may be living a lie and therefore mark my valid points as "invalid" and give me 3's and 4's to combo to nothing more than an 8/12

emf7301
05-26-2007, 11:29 AM
Yea the SAT writing is a joke in my opinion. They expect you write a well thought out and coherent essay in 30 minutes. It's complete bull. My best SAT is a 1310 w/out essay(like 1850 with essay :( ). I did significantly better on the ACT. I took it twice and had a 28/36 first an 32/36 the second time (with a semi-crappy essay score again). The SAT is very subjective and ACT is very objective. ACT has mostly grammar and obvious reading questions (not that "best answer" crap the SAT has). I highly suggest that you take the ACT if you haven't. Also, plan on taking it twice because the first time is just getting used to it and you will be somewhat off guard from the diff. from the SAT. The science section of the ACT is slightly confusing but it's just interpreting data. Personally, i found the ACT easier than the SAT but my mind works very logically. Your best idea is to give both a try.

HelpDeskHustler
05-26-2007, 03:16 PM
I'll look into taking the ACT more than once ... but I hate public school desks around here (they're too far from the built in chair -- clearly made for sleeping) and like 4 hours in one actually working kills your back. My school has SAT's and the desks are boss, but no ACT there.


The problem with the SAT essays is that they ask you to defend one side or the other, but the reader REALLY only accepts one of the two options, the one that they buy into. since i don't think like the readers, or most people for that matter, i have 30 minutes to write about something i don't actually back up or write a well composed essay that will change their mind, neither of which i find possible.

Nenkitsune
05-26-2007, 03:23 PM
actually, the last writing test i did was about i dunno..inventions or something i think whether inventions come about from necessity or through constant research. i didn't choose a side, and i took both sides of whatever it was. i got an 11/12 and i didn't finish it. i was half way into my 3rd body and still had that, and the conclusion
here was the prompt


Every important discovery results from patience, perseverance, and concentration--sometimes continuing for months or years--on one specific subject. A person who wants to discover a new truth must remain absorbed by that one subject, must pay no attention to any thought that is unrelated to the problem.

Adapted from Santiago Ramon Cajal, Advice for a Young Investigator

Assignment: Are all important discoveries the result of focusing on one subject? Plan and write an essay in which you develop your point of view on this issue. Support your position with reasoning and examples taken from your reading, studies, experience, or observations.

i just read my essay, and man, i can barely read it haha. anyways, i was stopped mid sentance on my 3rd paragraph (second body) and got an 11 out of 12 o_O the first sat i did, i FINISHED, and got an 8 out of 12

colonel_moo
05-26-2007, 08:40 PM
Yea the SAT writing is a joke in my opinion. They expect you write a well thought out and coherent essay in 30 minutes. It's complete bull. My best SAT is a 1310 w/out essay(like 1850 with essay :( ). I did significantly better on the ACT. I took it twice and had a 28/36 first an 32/36 the second time (with a semi-crappy essay score again). The SAT is very subjective and ACT is very objective. ACT has mostly grammar and obvious reading questions (not that "best answer" crap the SAT has). I highly suggest that you take the ACT if you haven't. Also, plan on taking it twice because the first time is just getting used to it and you will be somewhat off guard from the diff. from the SAT. The science section of the ACT is slightly confusing but it's just interpreting data. Personally, i found the ACT easier than the SAT but my mind works very logically. Your best idea is to give both a try.

actually its 20 minutes, and the topics are so broad its simple to write those essays. the trick is you have to narrow it down to more specific points from the broad prompt they give you. you dont even have to know anything about anything to answer the questions... you just have to be able to string together a sentence. the AP essays are much harder (history or english) because you actually have to think of specific details. as well as pay attention to mechanics etc.

HelpDeskHustler
05-27-2007, 07:33 AM
actually its 20 minutes, and the topics are so broad its simple to write those essays. the trick is you have to narrow it down to more specific points from the broad prompt they give you. you dont even have to know anything about anything to answer the questions... you just have to be able to string together a sentence. the AP essays are much harder (history or english) because you actually have to think of specific details. as well as pay attention to mechanics etc.
You have to write to an audience you don't know, which is much harder than people think since they almost always have essays to a teacher they pretty much know (enough to get them to pay attention and like the essay). part of writing well is knowing who and when to bull**** and since they don't really give you that opportunity you can either NOT do it or do it blind and hope you hit home with whoever is reading it.

durrell
05-27-2007, 08:00 AM
You have to write to an audience you don't know, which is much harder than people think since they almost always have essays to a teacher they pretty much know (enough to get them to pay attention and like the essay). part of writing well is knowing who and when to bull**** and since they don't really give you that opportunity you can either NOT do it or do it blind and hope you hit home with whoever is reading it.

Honestly..I think you're looking into that a bit farther than you should. I think you TRY to appear like an intellectual person that blows everyone elses mind by thinking so far outside of the box that no one else can understand you. That isn't going to be acceptable in college, and it wouldn't be acceptable in most high school classes. Sometimes in school you're going to have to write papers on things you might disagree with. Why would you go into the SAT and write something you know they're going to give you a bad grade on just because you don't agree? If you take it again, just go take it and write what you think you're supposed to write..not what you feel like writing.

Kenny_McCormic
05-27-2007, 01:00 PM
i dont understand standardized testing WHY THE HELL DO WE ALL HAVE TO THINK THE SAME? i find that id i anser things my way (short and to the point) i get horiible scores but if I add a bunch of pointless bull**** after my answer i get a good grade

HelpDeskHustler
05-27-2007, 03:46 PM
Honestly..I think you're looking into that a bit farther than you should. I think you TRY to appear like an intellectual person that blows everyone elses mind by thinking so far outside of the box that no one else can understand you. That isn't going to be acceptable in college, and it wouldn't be acceptable in most high school classes. Sometimes in school you're going to have to write papers on things you might disagree with. Why would you go into the SAT and write something you know they're going to give you a bad grade on just because you don't agree? If you take it again, just go take it and write what you think you're supposed to write..not what you feel like writing.
If I give them an inch there, why not again? It would just give me another excuse to sit here and be a face in the crowd.

Edit: and now that I think about it, I'm really insulted that you think I TRY to be "outside of the box" or whatever you want to call me. This is just how I am, I like think about stuff that people wash over, and assume is one way without really looking into any other possibility. Maybe you should just get over the fact that not everyone is the same and that I'm not going to be a person who sits behind everyone else and pretends to agree. It's a bull**** thing to do and if you have ever taken a history class that talks about WW2 you should know why. http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=10883

Jimmyd24
05-31-2007, 10:16 AM
if your reallly good at math and science, then the act will be easier because their is more emphasis on those subjects and the english writing subjects were in my opinion a little easier then the SAT.
and the guy that said that you shouldnt worry about the SAT if your going out of state is wrong.when i applied to cornell they needed both the scores.
i got a 30 on my ACT and a 1340 on SAT

NeedForSpeed
05-31-2007, 12:40 PM
I think what Durrell was trying to say Helpdesk is that most of the SAT essay graders are all looking for the opinion that agrees with their's. "Thinking out of the box" is frowned upon by some of the "more intellectual" people in this world. There's only one way to do it right. And thats theirs. Durrell was not trying to change you as a person he was just giving a suggestion on how to write the standardized testing essays. The graders are looking for "standaradized" answers already, mind as well give them one JUST for THE GRADE. That's what its all about anyway in these tests. The essays are just a bunch of crap anyway. Most college reps tell you straight out that they don't care much. Give the testers what they want and then forget about it. It seems like half the world is like that anyway. To make it "far" one must just give people want they want.
I took the SAT in 8th grade and got a 1170 or 1180 before they had these crazy essays. I'm not looking foward to it again..:(

DFSniper
06-04-2007, 09:15 AM
wow, i got a 8/12 on the essay (640 on the total writing), 570 on the math, 680 on the reading (total 1250 on the old one). my essay was kinda far-fetched, and i only used real-life examples, but they should only grade on style, not content, at least thats how my SAT/College Prep teacher explained it.

spyderpilotacs05
06-04-2007, 03:02 PM
my bro took them a moth ago got a 1800 and is not sadisfied

xtraking
06-04-2007, 03:03 PM
if your reallly good at math and science, then the act will be easier because their is more emphasis on those subjects and the english writing subjects were in my opinion a little easier then the SAT.
and the guy that said that you shouldnt worry about the SAT if your going out of state is wrong.when i applied to cornell they needed both the scores.
i got a 30 on my ACT and a 1340 on SAT
ACT has zero science. It has science graph comprehension. They dont ask, what is the kreb cycle or anything like that.

xtraking
06-04-2007, 03:08 PM
I think what Durrell was trying to say Helpdesk is that most of the SAT essay graders are all looking for the opinion that agrees with their's. "Thinking out of the box" is frowned upon by some of the "more intellectual" people in this world. There's only one way to do it right. And thats theirs. Durrell was not trying to change you as a person he was just giving a suggestion on how to write the standardized testing essays. The graders are looking for "standaradized" answers already, mind as well give them one JUST for THE GRADE. That's what its all about anyway in these tests. The essays are just a bunch of crap anyway. Most college reps tell you straight out that they don't care much. Give the testers what they want and then forget about it. It seems like half the world is like that anyway. To make it "far" one must just give people want they want.
I took the SAT in 8th grade and got a 1170 or 1180 before they had these crazy essays. I'm not looking foward to it again..:(


There are two readers for your essay and if both grades are not within a point, they get a 3rd reader, so the opinion idea is thrown out.
Every college that I have seen and talked to, DOES NOT take account for the essay portion.
You can use made up examples to get to the point and it does not matter. The main thing is that your essay is well structured, a decent word usage, and most importantly... EASY TO READ.

And the essay is not bad, it is just another 25 wasted minutes, but I dont know why people dread the essay.
Remember, "Speak to express not to impress" - I forget who.

vikingshadow
06-04-2007, 03:24 PM
^^^Absolutely right. I took a workshop this year put on by the people who grade state writing tests - 2 days of misery! What I got out of it is that the readers could care less about your opinion, or your point of view (after reading a thousand of them, who can blame them?)

Readers grade essays on 4 major points, but two of the big points are staying on topic and sentence/paragraph/vocabulary mechanics. The other two escape me at the moment (Hey, I'm on vacation!) but I think they're something like "Is the writing complete?" and "Did the writer address the topic completely?" I'll look it up later....

Of course, not much weight is put on the essay portion of the test, because most of the time the grades can be subjective to the mindset of the grader. However, it is an important test for finding out whether the test taker can think about a topic and write down their thoughts in a clear and concise manner on any particular subject.

I also have heard the saying "Speak to express, not to impress" though I've heard it as "Speak and write to express, not to impress, for the masses are easily impressed and just as easily bored without content..."

HelpDeskHustler
06-04-2007, 04:11 PM
Yea, I'll agree with that, but clearly something is up with the readers if one finds all of my points valid but the other finds none of them valid. Also I'd like to heavily emphasize how I feel about Durrell's comments: I will not lie on a standardized test about who I am and what I believe just to receive a better grade to label me by; if I were going to lie, it wouldn't be to that BS.

xtraking
06-07-2007, 07:54 PM
^^^Absolutely right.
Finally, some recognition :D

But, who thought the giant squid selection was very interesting, but the chinese immigrant slecetion was a waste of time?

HelpDeskHustler
06-08-2007, 08:38 AM
Ok... so I'm confused here. If everyone knows the internet is the big thing and that it'll probably be a key part of our jobs in some way.... how does the ACT get off judging students capabilities of the future in college and the workplace when they can't even make a good website for themselves. Their site(s) are a mess. I say "site(s)" because in theory it should be one site... but they have it spread over at least 4 domains. If computers could have nightmares they would look like Myspace or ACT's site.

vikingshadow
06-08-2007, 01:46 PM
Because although the internet is an integral part of the future, anything educational has yet to catch up. Sadly, this is one area (among a few, I suppose) where education has to catch up with the rest of the world.

Sure, there are several classes going on teaching this stuff, and a lot of teachers are catching on, but you have to remember that A LOT of teachers are old school in that they remember teaching before students could even afford calculators, and now they all have their own personal computers! Because of this, they are very phobic of their own work computers which are, in a sense, mainly an object they enter grades in and check emails once in a while. I see this every day in my school - especially come grade time when I have to reteach 80% of them how to simply export their grades, or when I have to leave my classroom just to help them by doing something as simple as a reboot to get their computers working correctly again. They just don't want to learn.

Don't worry though, they'll be forced to catch up eventually and then it'll be made right - but you have to be more than a little patient on this.