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vikingshadow
03-24-2007, 06:55 AM
Well, I finally caved in to my desire to buy paintball stuff and dropped $199.95bucks on a new Ultralight frame for my PMR. I found it on eBay with free shipping (2nd day air by UPS.) I ordered it Wednesday afternoon (late) and got it Friday afternoon. Not bad, if I say so myself! I bought it from a store there, and was very impressed with them when I spoke to them on the phone (can't remember the name right now and filters are preventing me from accessing eBay. I'll edit this when I can!) A +

Note - I have no issues with the stock PMR frame. Actually, it's one of the most comfortable frames I've felt. But, I've been reading about the difference it makes, not so much in performance (the PMR has a very good board in it) but in comfort. I have small hands, and an itchy checkbook, so I finally gave up trying to find one cheaper and found one with free shipping and bought it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/newtoy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/frameinbox.jpg

The frame comes as a metal alloy for the option of getting rid of the polymer stock frame. It includes the Ultralight trigger, the Ultralight board and programming and Dye sticky grips with HUD and side LED panel.

First impressions - the frame is extremely light for being made of alloy. VERY close to the weight of the stock PMR frame. It definitly won't be noticeable with tank and loader - or for that matter, without them! A+

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/frame2.jpg

The buttons are somewhat harder to press with my fat fingers, but they are stable and won't fall out like the stock ones do when you remove the grips. A

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/backofframe.jpg

The hourglass design has definitely made the grip smaller. I can almost circle my hand and fingers completely around the frame, grips and trigger and touch them together. I have small hands, remember? However, the feel is odd to me since I'm not used to it yet. We'll see as time goes by whether they are truly as comfy as advertised. A

There is an integrated rail at the bottom of the frame, just like the PMR. Also, just like the PMR, there is a grub screw that tightens down on the asa. This feature is made better by being able to access it via hole in the bottom of the grip. All you do is insert a key and turn - no need to remove the grips for this! A+

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/adjustmenthole.jpg

The frame comes with the Ultralight blade style trigger. I haven't made up my mind on this trigger yet. It does fit the frame MUCH better than the Ultralight trigger I bought for the stock board - meaning not nearly as much side to side play. It's also extremely easy to walk, but I've yet come across a trigger on any of my guns that I feel totally comfortable with. A-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/trigger.jpg

Asthetics - Finish is extremely well done. However, I notice it doesn't completely match up with the finish on the PMR. I suppose that's to be expected, since they weren't done at the same time. In the sun, it's hard to tell the difference between the two. B

The two buttons to access the board functions are on the back of the grip, just like the PMR stock frame. However, these are metal buttons, and don't feel as cheap or loose as the stock buttons. Dye has taken the time to but some decorative housing around the buttons so it's not cheap looking. A+

There is a large Dye symbol on both sides of the grips, one of which is a panel to see the LED through. It also has a Head's Up Display (HUD) which is a small transluscent dot at the top of the grips facing the player from which to see the LED light. In my opinion, it's worthless because I couldn't see the leds outside. This might be good on overcast days or playing inside, but outside on sunny days it won't help a bit! A+ for the side, C for the HUD

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/LED.jpg

This frame comes with Dye Sticky grips, which I have always preferred over stock grips on any gun - I've had 3 different pairs now for various guns. A+

Installation - very easy to install. You just have to make sure to be careful with the solonoid wires and the eye ribbon. Make sure when installing that you don't get the wire and ribbon on top of the trigger and you'll be fine. Dye has corrected a previous issue and has included two longer screws for this frame. A

The eye ribbon on the PMR is a pain - it sticks up and away from the board. On the stock PMR board, this isn't a big deal because it doesn't hit anything. However, the way the Ultralight board is set up, it has to bend because it strikes the grips - and this is bad. It caused my eyes to read a ball in chamber when there was none in there. To fix this, I just bent it the other way. C-

Dye has also corrected the issue of weak battery connectors by utilizing an Ego style battery connector. All you do is drop a battery into the frame itself. No wires to deal with! A+

Board - The board that comes with the Ultralite is very similar in function to the stock PMR board. It has semi, PSP ramping, Millenium ramping, ABS, Dwell and ROF adjustments, but not the NXL feature the stock board has (stock board is a PM7 board.) It's a pain because you have to open the grip to configure the modes. The virtue board on my Shocker is much easier to program as it's all done through the trigger. I think if Dye had incorporated this, I would like it a lot more. The lack of NXL mode doesn't bother me as I never use it anyways. A -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/board1.jpg

The ultralight board also doesn't slide in sideways, but is similar to the Timmy and Angel boards in that it runs lengthwise with the grips. The LED is very easily seen (indoors) in both the side Dye emblem and the HUD at the top. One odd feature is that to access the board, it's on the OPPOSITE side of the frame from what I'm used to from all my other guns. Nothing bad, just strange to me.

The battery, as I said, is a drop in affair making it MUCH better than the standard wire and connector job. A +

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Ultralight%20frame%20review/board2.jpg

Overall impressions and score: The frame is somewhat more comfortable for me, but I can see it not being so comfy for larger hands. It's got better buttons, better grips, and overall looks less "cheap." It used to make the PMR more unique, but due to the low price of the gun, it seems everyone is getting it.

Is it worth the $199.95 I paid for it? I don't know - probably not. It doesn't enhance performance, only comfort. In my opinion, it doesn't improve the look of the gun that much either. However, the frame is still somewhat new, and if I don't like it, I can sell it for pretty much the same price I bought it for.

My suggestion - if you have small hands, need a trigger, don't like the polymer of the frame and have 200.00 to drop on a frame, then go for it. However, go into it understanding it is NOT a performance upgrade. Overall grade - I'll give it a B.

vikingshadow
03-24-2007, 11:13 AM
Here are some pictures of before and after.

PS - I have a video of my PMR now, but I'm having difficulty getting it to my computer. I'll get it up as soon as possible!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/beforepic4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/after1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/beforepic3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/after3.jpg

Hob Hayward
03-24-2007, 02:55 PM
I'd dock some more from it's grade for the lack of a built in rail...

vikingshadow
03-24-2007, 04:20 PM
I'd dock some more from it's grade for the lack of a built in rail...

There is an integrated rail at the bottom of the frame, just like the PMR. Also, just like the PMR, there is a grub screw that tightens down on the asa. This feature is made better by being able to access it via hole in the bottom of the grip. All you do is insert a key and turn - no need to remove the grips for this! A+

Um, yeah....:p

I played with the gun today - the frame did everything it was supposed to do so no worries there. The board performed flawlessly. As far as comfort, I honestly didn't notice a difference. For this reason alone, I'm going to lower the overall score to a C.

It just isn't that much of an upgrade, in my opinion. It's a great product, but the benefits do not outweigh the features of the stock frame. It will add resale value to the gun, if that's what you're concerned about. It will give you added confidence if you're worried about the composite frame (though you shouldn't be.) But, it won't add performance to your gun, and it doesn't feel that much different when you're playing.

Granted, I was dealing with other gun issues today - a weird honking noise that I think was coming from the reg - so I may not have been paying as close of attention as I should have been to the frame. So, I will hold off a totally convincing conclussion until further play is done.

whoa! looks pro. will buy for 150 if you sell

I'm going to keep it, but that price would be too low anyways! ;)

HelpDeskHustler
03-25-2007, 06:14 AM
I noticed incredible difference in feel between pm7 + pm7+ul on identical settings. UL just seems to make it easier to rip w/ either hand imo, and i don't have small hands, it's just the way it holds.

vikingshadow
03-25-2007, 06:31 AM
You know, now that you mention it, I did forget the feel of the trigger on this frame. It is MUCH easier to get up to speed on this frame. The stock PMR has a "clicky" feel to it, where as the UL frame has a more "smooth" feeling to it. Does that make sense?

vikingshadow
03-25-2007, 08:18 AM
Let's keep this on topic according to Member Review rules - only questions/statements regarding the product are allowed. Thanks!

timmyshoota
03-25-2007, 01:00 PM
Is it just me or is the UL frame taller than the stock frame? If you look at the snatch area it looks like it is. Does it just look taller or is it actually taller?

HelpDeskHustler
03-25-2007, 01:36 PM
Let's keep this on topic according to Member Review rules - only questions/statements regarding the product are allowed. Thanks!
my bad, i figured since rail ul frame and normal ul frames are essentially the same thing feel-wise, that i had some experience in that field, I really haven't felt the stock frame so i don't know what the difference is, but from what i could tell on other guns UL is definitely a good way to go.

Hob Hayward
03-25-2007, 02:22 PM
Why then did you add the S-Rail to the UL frame?

vikingshadow
03-25-2007, 02:37 PM
Helpdesk - I was referring to some other posts I deleted, not that specific post. Your info was welcome on that issue!

Hob - I have the srail on there because the UL handle sits back further on the gun than the stock frame does. Because of that, my macroline wasn't long enough. I wanted to shoot it, but my tank reg wouldn't let me move the ASA further forward, so I put the srail on there so I could play with it. However, I got some macro yesterday evening though and took the srail off, so it's back to normal again.

Timmy - I thought the same thing, but height-wise, it's really close to the same height. The UL is about 1/3 - 1/2 inch taller (the length of the integrated rail and the distance from the bottom of the grip to the bottom of the frame, so the height is negligible. The upper part of the frame, where the dye logo and snatch grip is, is a bit thicker, and the handle is the same thickness at the bottom, but much thinner at the top where you actually hold it. Like I said, the handle is moved back more than the stock frame, and the trigger guard has a larger opening as well at the top, but smaller towards the bottom of the guard.

Oscum Guy
03-25-2007, 04:27 PM
The stock PMR has a "clicky" feel to it, where as the UL frame has a more "smooth" feeling to it. Does that make sense?

definetely makes sense. thats what i feel when i shoot a spyder then shoot my spimmy.

HelpDeskHustler
03-25-2007, 04:39 PM
it may be due to a change in micro switches, or a change in trigger pin/trigger design, or just the proto trigger being "flexy", input on that "clicky feeling" would be nice though.

vikingshadow
03-25-2007, 05:41 PM
The "clicky" does have to do with the microswitch, I'm pretty sure. It could be that the weight of the stock switch is greater than that of the UL frame switch. Throw in the combination of the spring that you pretty much HAVE to use on the stock frame and the location of it (on the top of the trigger on the stock frame vs on the back of the UL trigger) I think it just makes it more "clicky."

timbertiger20
03-25-2007, 10:49 PM
WOW Vike.........we can always count on an honest thorough review from you! Can you start re-writing the APG gun reviews that say all of the guns are perfect including the Tippmann Triumph?

vikingshadow
03-26-2007, 03:38 AM
Hahaha - if they would send me the guns, I'd do it!

HelpDeskHustler
03-26-2007, 11:43 AM
is the UL trigger roller? and the stock trigger?

vikingshadow
03-26-2007, 12:58 PM
The stock trigger isn't a roller bearing trigger, but the UL trigger for the stock frame and the UL trigger in UL frame are (two different triggers.)

HelpDeskHustler
03-26-2007, 03:12 PM
magnet vs spring could do it... i know the UL is spring, what about the stock frame?

vikingshadow
03-26-2007, 04:19 PM
They're both spring returned. The spring is on the top of the trigger on the stock frame. On the UL trigger it's actually on the back of the trigger.

The stock spring is quite a bit stiffer than the UL spring though. The mixture of a stiffer spring and heavier microswitch (I think) is what makes the stock frame trigger more "clicky".

HelpDeskHustler
03-26-2007, 04:49 PM
Thanks for getting more in depth on that vike. Just to confirm. UL stock trigger DOES NOT work in UL frame correct?

vikingshadow
03-26-2007, 06:41 PM
No problem - glad I can be so much help!

The UL stock trigger DOES NOT work in the UL frame. Here are pictures that compare the two (borrowed from PBNation - again, they aren't ENTIRELY useless over there! :D)

http://members.cox.net/protovids/pmr/pmrulfrtrig.jpg http://members.cox.net/protovids/pmr/prmstockultrig.jpg

You can see that the UL frame trigger is somewhat more compact in the connection and contact area, and utilizes a grub screw to contact the microswitch. It's a solid metal piece on the stock frame trigger. The front part of the stock frame UL trigger sits on the OUTSIDE of the frame as well (something I never really liked about it. The spring for the UL frame trigger sits right where than rear grub screw is mounted, and on the stock frame UL trigger has the spring located on the thin metal area to to front of the trigger.

Technically, the only thing UL about the stock UL trigger is that actual finger area on the trigger looks similar. Other than that and the weight, there really isn't another similarity.

HelpDeskHustler
03-27-2007, 03:10 AM
One last thing. the colors don't look like they match in the pics (body+frame), what say you?

vikingshadow
03-27-2007, 03:39 AM
The colors match, but there is a subtle difference in the finish of the body and the frame which makes them look different. It's not noticeable in the sun, but inside, you can see there's a difference, especially in pictures.

One complaint that I have about the PMR is that you just can't take a good close up picture of it - I must have tried a dozen different locations, lightings and positions, but none of them produce a quality shot. This is truly a "you have to see it in person to truly appreciate it" gun. Weird, huh?

vikingshadow
04-12-2007, 03:55 AM
New thoughts on the UL Frame - I've found that I really like the comfort of the frame now. I still don't think it helps performance wise, but I was working on my Shocker the other day and the frame felt HUGE compared to the UL frame. I'm going to have to give it a higher grade for comfort now!